Institute for the Study of the Neurologically Typical: Current Research (guestbook)

[Website for Erik Engdahl] --> [Subhomepage about autism spectrum conditions] --> [Institute for the Study of the Neurologically Typical] provisionally hosting the disappeared(?) parody site http://isnt.autistics.org . Views expressed on the hosted site are not necessarily the views of host owner and vice-versa. Why hosting the site?

The current page is a mirror image of http://web.archive.org/web/20080509054048/http://isnt.autistics.org/guestbook.html (9 May 2008)
having adress http://www.erikengdahl.se/autism/isnt/guestbook.html .
Links originally internal to the disappeared(?) site are remade to become internal to the hosted mirror site.
The original page contained names and e-mail adresses of guestbook contributors. By now, much water has flowed under the bridges and maybe some contributors would rather like to withdraw their texts. As a reasonable compromise, initials are substituted for the names and e-mail adresses.

Current Research (guestbook)

Add your "research" | See the Research Archives (1998-1999).

Ummm.... Did anyone else check out the news articles at
http://www.ens-news.com/ today? Or yesterday? Or the day before?

......you think my mother was scary........
Anon xxy
Anytown, Earth - Friday, April 05, 2002 at 09:48:26 (CST)

I seem to have tested as still showing signs of NT disorder, I guess I am not completely cured yet. My daughter is giving me good theraphy though.
J.S.
- Thursday, April 04, 2002 at 14:06:22 (CST)

Wow, what a wonderful site. You really made me laughing about the subject on the autistic spectrum. I am studying this subject now for a few weeks because my daughter is supposed to have PDD-NOS. Well now I know I have probably NT so I just learned this will interact with autistic persons. What a relief. You just hit the nail on the head!!! Thank you for expressing the feeling that I had all the time but could not express as a NT person. (Sorry, for my bad English, I hope you will understand it.)
A.H.
Den Bosch, Netherlands - Thursday, April 04, 2002 at 13:48:40 (CST)

We have a winner!
Please now respect the eldest known (web-published and hence popularly respect-able) autistic, Guy LeLarge:
http://www.prosopautism.com/ePhilo.htm
oviri
- Wednesday, April 03, 2002 at 04:59:03 (CST)

No community throughout history has lasted for any length of time at all without respect for it's Elders. Not the jewish community, not any norse or asian or african, not any european, island, native american or aboriginal. If anyone can think of one please let us all know.

Some have allowed democracy to superceed and replace respect for Elders. The process has taken about 3000 years, (since the coalition of the roman city-states), so I know better than to blame any individual.

Though I do not blame I do take responsability. My taking responsability seems to me what at this time I will call maturity.

No community can continue without mature individuals.
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Democracy does not exist without writing. Vocalization is part of our genetic heritage, not writing.

Vocalization has roots about one billion years old in the first communique' between life on Earth, genetic material.

Writing is only about twenty thousand years old.

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Written Law is at best a reduction ( over-simplification ) of Natural Law. At it's worst Written Law is a nightmare.

Giving no regard or concideration to the 97% of our brains that science can not document, can not 'prove' and therefore has no legal standing, Written Law ignores that 97% of our brains that have to do with relationships other than inter-human.

Often divided into the two catagories of civil law and criminal law, both civil and criminal law fail and both do injustice to all.

Civil law is an attempt to reduce Natural Law into terms of inter-species relationships. With no regard to life other than hu-man, its trying to interpret all of Earth into terms of human, with its misrepresentation of what we are, Civil Law is suicidal.

Criminal Law accuses and threatens those who are more respectful of Natural Law.

Talk of talking and one opens to review about one billion years of human history. Ever since that first communique' between life On Earth, genetic material, our abilities to communicate have been refined and refined and refined. It is from vocalization that rises the abilities to express with sublties of spirit and soul which have never been before between life forms On Earth.

Not from writing. Now I have words. Now we have words.

Now we have words. Now I have words.

==========================================================

Is human separate from all other life On Earth ? Or is human truely a part of a greater life, a life known as The Mother, a life known as Gaia ? Or is human both ?

Vocalization is part of our genetic heritage, writing, only about twenty thousand years old, is not. Must we choose between the two ? Is written law worth killing for ? is written law worth dieing for ?

It is from vocalization that rises our abilities to express ourselves with the sublties of spirit and soul that have never been before between life forms On Earth. Not from writing.

Is written law worth dieing for ?

===========================================================

Re-Spect of Elders is, with the rise of mammalian life, at least 60 million years old. Though not as deep, ancient or obvious as male and female or the pursuit of food, respect of Elders is still part of our genetic heritage.

Democracy, giving a suggestion of voice to many, giving what is a delusion of voice to many, amounts to Elders not being heard at all.

Re-Spect Elders.

It seems to me that male humans are most often thrust into Elder-ship while female hu-mans are most often drawn into it. If either survive that long. This is as it should be.

It seems that male and female humans will not ever truely and completely understand each other, that young humans will always have inherent differences. This is as it should be. To ignore these differences and call male and female the same is disrespectful to both. To ignore these differences and call male and female the same is in denial of what we are. To ignore these differences and call male and female the same is suicidal.

Until one has lived with acceptence of differences for a while, and that is lived with it as in practiced and gotten used to it, until that time and experience has come one does not truely appreciate differences. And that is acceptence, not tolerance and not half-brained babbling platitudes or stonewalling.

Respect Elders. They know why you should even if you don't.

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Will is a trinitive balance of, as best as I can put in words, - yes, no, maybe - . Will is not a duality such as "you and I".

Will is inseperable from life. Every life has a will of its own. Every life has had a will of its own since the dawns of life On Earth, about three billion years ago.

Will has little changed these past three billion years.

It is from the third corner of will, from - maybe- that rises all extreems and balances of Left and Right.
Not from - yes and not from - no.

Before political meaning, Left / Right extreems and balances have real anotomical meaning and have had so for about three billion years. It is genetically inherent. It is part of all humans.

Left / Right extreems and balances have risen with human and has become a task and a weight upon Elders.

Human, as is the bonobo, gorilla, ant, horse, chimpanzee, wolf, alligator, cat, bee, and many others, a highly inter-dependent social group. With the rise of Left / Right extreems and balances it has become embodied in Elders the tie breaker and the meaning of concensus at its most basic level. Not embodied in any Written Law, not embodied in any system or doctrine or philsophy or school, it is in Elders that is embodied the meaning of concensus at its most basic level.

When Elders are non-competitive it is they who offer a greater concious peace to any group.

When forced to be competitive there may be nothing left of Life, of Earth, of these days 21st century A.D. but chaos, dust and hell.

==================================================================

It is Elders that give meaning to concensus. The trinitive balance of will has risen these past three billion years to become expressed within highly inter-dependent groups such as human in the bodies, wills and experience of Elders.

===========================================================

Not in writing, not in Democracy, it is in the bodies, in the wills and in the experiences of Elders that concensus has its most basic meanings.

Re-Spect Elders. They know why you should even if you do not.

If I must get rude about it I must get rude about it. They know why you should even if you do not.

Re-Spect Elders.
HT
NY USA - Tuesday, April 02, 2002 at 19:03:57 (CST)

I’ve never really understood what was meant by a “real man”. Women complain in so many different ways, it makes no sense to me. I think that the divorce rate has something to say about the value judgments of both sexes.
M.O'F.
- Tuesday, April 02, 2002 at 15:08:48 (CST)

then we had best not out shout the women who say that there are not enough real men, right M.O'F. ?

Anon xxy
Anytown, Earth - Monday, April 01, 2002 at 18:19:41 (CST)

Hallelujah!

oviri
- Monday, April 01, 2002 at 15:35:41 (CST)

M.O'F.:
In accordance with research published (I think it was in The Journal of Neuroscience) on the Internet, which I have come across.Many medical experts view a "fully autistic" person as having an "extreme male mind". In that if you take the general difference between the female and male mind, exaggerate that difference, the result is somewhere on the autistic spectrum in terms of the neurophysical characteristics of the brain. Women tend to display more of a right hemispheric dominance which accounts for their “emotional intuition”. Also if you consider (a very well documented example in medicine) the case where a man suffered a severe head injury which in involved a “nail” going through his skull going between the right and left hemisphere, thereby severing the cross hemispheric nerves. The result was most notable in that if the man lost his temper he had no since of emotional regulation and would try to literally kill whomever he directed his anger at. His sense of empathy had being removed from the instinctive “kill or die” strategy associated with the response of the left hemisphere in an environmental disharmony. It is also worth noting that it is accepted in medicine that testosterone damages the right hemisphere. On a concrete this accounts for why some women actually consider some men to behave as if they are brain damaged. Men are slightly brain damaged in terms of the right hemisphere compared to women.

Please note that in accordance with research done on “split patients” – “patients, those whose corpus callosi (nerves connecting both hemispheres) had been surgically separated to alleviate intractable epilepsy” and reviewed in Scientific America – the LEFT hemisphere IS to do with logic and the RIGHT hemisphere IS to do with emotion. This statement is completely indisputable because of all the evidence. I wouldn’t have said it if couldn’t be backed up. Everything I have said can be defended. Read it at:

www.sciam.com/askexpert/medicine/medicine34/medicine34.html
www.mantra.com.ar/Ingles/frame_intelligence.html
www.wizardofads.com/archive/left_right.htm

You will find that the way I can boundary-span my knowledge makes me a world leader in autism research. I am ahead of all the experts in the world in the way I can apply the principles of unified field physics to explain this issue in terms of my references to harmony which I have a very specific understanding of.

Once again, this has being produced by the left hemisphere of M.O'F..

M.O'F.
dublin, ireland - Monday, April 01, 2002 at 14:54:04 (CST)

Moreover, autistic people show no consistent pattern of brain damage on one side of the brain or the other. It is unclear what you mean by "fully autistic" as well.
AJR
- Monday, April 01, 2002 at 01:35:39 (CST)

The postings would make more sense if they did not overgeneralize about the roles of the right and left hemispheres. The left hemisphere is not "logic" and the right hemisphere is not "emotion."
AJR
- Monday, April 01, 2002 at 01:32:28 (CST)

Will is a trinitive balance of, as best as I can put in words, yes, no, maybe. It is from the third corner of will, - maybe - that rises all extreems and balances of Left/Right.

Will is not a duality such as "you and I"

Every life has a will of its own. No one can "control" the will of another life but only destroy that life with any persistent attempt at control.
HT
NY USA - Sunday, March 31, 2002 at 16:10:05 (CST)

Hi I haven't read it, although I intend checing it out right away. In the mean time, it's a Saturday night and I am just after writing a brilliant essay that really places autism in the bigger picture, I think you might appreciate it...ENJOY:

If the human spices was to live in harmony with it’s environment, consciousness would be dominated by the right hemisphere. The right hemisphere is responsible for emotion. Emotion is what makes us appreciate the environment. If you look at biology it is the species that live in harmony with their environment are the species that survive. The species that do not tend to become extinct. Living in harmony with the environment is an evolutionary advantage that accounts for the development of emotions. Logic reasoning minimal (reduntant) in such cases because it is the harmony that accounts for the real evolutionary advantage. When this harmony is disrupted in ecological terms the imbalance results in the chaotic variation in terms of Darwinian evolution that results in new viruses and new species that continue to mutate until harmony is re established. Then the level of mutation goes into equilibrium. The chaotic variation on this level is the same as the chaotic variation we associate with the creativity of a person with a left hemispheric dominance (autistic spectrum). It is the lack of harmony between the human species and the environment that results in the evolution of the minds model of reality fueled by the higher levels of testosterone that we associate with a higher requirement for survival. If survival is guaranteed by the only guarantee which is harmony then the levels of testosterone appropriately drop to an equilibrium that is optimal for sustaining harmony. The development of the left hemisphere is the need to adopt to the environment in terms of reasoning. For example, humans need to how to forage for food and if the ecological system changes the methods of finding food will also need to change. This change is the evolution of ideas. Once humans had readopted to the environment, the levels of testosterone would subside to allow for complete harmony with the environment, which is established with the right hemisphere in terms of emotion and appreciation of the environment. The new knowledge that would have emerged as a result of the dis-equilibrium and subsequent creativity would be stored in memory, and that attribute is a reason (an example) for the development of memory. It is disharmony that is accountable for new species and it is the disharmony that has sustained over thousands of years that is giving birth to the culture we know of as being civilization. Ultimately this disharmony and the consequent power of the left hemisphere is going to give rise to a new species again – that of the computer mind. Presently computers are based on the “bit” when they start using “quantum bits” the computers will develop awareness because the quantum bit resembles the natural world. For example there are four alternative positions for a gene to store information. It is the same with a quantum bit, in that a “q-bit” have four alternative positions to store information as opposed to the “bit” that has only two positions. This will mean that computers will be able to compute using exponential functions. It is interesting to note that emotion is more associated with curves, ex the human body, (curves are more beautiful- more emotional than the impassive nature of geometric shapes such as circles and straight lines) curves are all exponential functions of some sort or other and it is the right hemisphere that is accountable for emotion, on the other hand the functioning of the left hemisphere is more based on geometric rigid logic. This logic can all be dealt with by “bit” computers for example a calculator (this ties in with severely autistic people being often super human in terms of computation that a computer typically performs). The right hemisphere seems to concern itself with the type of computation that would be only possible with a quantum computer, because the quantum computer could process exponential functions that would be curves. Whereas the left hemisphere seems to use a different system of functioning that ties in with the logic of a bit computer. These systems are fundamentally different and that is why we can never really understand one in terms of the other. On a concrete level we can completely separate emotion and reason, particularly for people on the autistic spectrum because testosterone damages the nerves that connect the right and the left hemispheres, thereby creating separate senses of awareness, emotions and reasoning. The autistic spectrum is a direct result of the disharmony between the human race and the environment. The evidence supports this in that if you examine the mentality of certain tribes in, for example Botswana in Africa, these people display a harmony with there environment that correlates with the appreciation of their environment and also a marked absence of social disease associated with higher levels of testosterone, for example testosterone fuels violence, aggression, anti-social behavior and also competition. It fuels competition because competition increases the chances of survival and in a state of disharmony there is a higher need for the survival mentality of the left hemisphere. We have created a disharmonic environment and the result is environmental pressure that is increasing testosterone level, hence the mantra “work hard, play hard” that reflects the mind set of our culture. This is not to say that people on the autistic spectrum are violent because testosterone is only one input concerning the development of the personality. A gentle upbringing will result in a relatively stable person, although some characteristics remain on an instinctive level, for example it is accepted that people on the autistic spectrum display an unusual peek in anger if they lose their temper, although if they have a good upbringing this trait will become extinct after puberty when the puberty specific testosterone dis-equilibrium settles into balance.
So there you have it.
An excellent explanation of autism- in terms of the bigger picture.
This essay was written by myself in an ad hoc fashion for the purposes of understanding, which is necessary to establish harmony. Note that if your brain waves go into harmony what you experience is euphoria, ex. an orgasm, use of opiates, etc. It is the lack of harmony in the environment that gives rise to a greater capacity for understanding necessary for re-establishing harmony. It could be argued that the global disharmony is manifesting itself in warfare, nuclear weapons and other treats to our survival as a species. We must establish harmony, individually, socially, environmentally, it is the only guarantee of survival in a given environment, ignoring factors external to the given environment, for example a meteor crashing into the earth.
I think that the readers of this web site are more likely to understand my views explanations and hypothesis because of their neurological structure. As it happens I have many other bizarre theories concerning the nature of the universe(everything) that might interest you people, for it is only our kind that can deal with such abstraction.
If you do happen to agree with everything I have said in this essay you might take me serious when I say that I have being absolutely and utterly obsessed with the nature of reality all my life and that I have given birth to a theory, which in itself is indisputable and is possibly the most significant advance the world of science will have ever experienced, and a very significant movement for consciousness as we know it. This theory of mine is a theory of everything, and it’s is MINE all MINE.

Written and produced my the left hemisphere of M.O'F..

M.O'F.
dublin, ireland - Saturday, March 30, 2002 at 20:20:08 (CST)

M.O'F.
Have you read, "Mind as a dynamical system"?http://www.shifth.mistral.co.uk/autism/index.htm

me-me
- Saturday, March 30, 2002 at 11:05:49 (CST)

I made a typing mistake in the previous passage in that I meant to say that the "over development of the left hemisphere results in the right hemisphere being under developed" It is this over development of the left hemisphere that results in what we know as being genius. For example, NT people have the center for music appreciation in their right hemisphere with neural-subsystems in the left hemisphere. However in musical geniuses, when they are examined with electro magnetic imaging- NO SURPRISE- the center for music appreciation is in fact in the left hemisphere, with the neural sub-systems in the right hemisphere. It is also worth noting that NT people have their language center in their right hemisphere, no surprise – when the center for language is in the left hemisphere, this is accepted in the medical profession as a sign of genius. Hence autistic people tend to have a peculiar style of articulation that often displays a remarkable degree of logic in terms of the semantic architecture. Autistic people in some cases can actually use words in a fashion that is akin to mathematics, this have bizarre implications. It can mean that autistic people have a framework for deduction, a framework for performing almost mathematical functions with language. This can give rise to an incredibly complex inner world of abstract logic that may, at a certain level actually start to mirror the nature of the objective reality. The min in NT people produces a simplified model of reality. It does not address reality directly. In autistic people their mind addresses reality in a more direct sense, hence with fully autistic people (example the Rain Man- film) they become obsessed with patterns, BECAUSE the objective reality is based entirely on patterns, wave equations, loops – which ever way it is expressed- if the objective reality is expressed visually the result is geometry and I could go a lot further with this point, but I don’t think I should. On a lighter note, when the objective reality experiences itself subjectively the result is what we know to be consciousness. YES, that is what consciousness is, it is the objective reality subjectively experiencing itself. I could go much further with this, but it all becomes very unsettling and quite distressing when critical mass is reached in terms of the autocatalyses of abstractive deduction. The meaning of life is emotion. The only value that there ever can be is in the subjective experience because value itself as a concept is subjective. Emotion is meaning.
M.O'F.
dublin, ireland - Saturday, March 30, 2002 at 10:18:51 (CST)

Where does it come from?
(AS) Aspergers Syndrome is the opposite to NT. I have identified some of the most amazing things because of my introspection. For example it is clear to me that genius is somewhere between NT and autism. The neurological explanation is that the left hemisphere of the brain develops at the expense of the right hemisphere. This means that in the extreme case the right is completely impaired resulting in a fully autistic person. The underdevelopment of the left hemisphere causes AS people to be emotionally underveloped because the right hemisphere is accountable for emotion and the left hemisphere is accountable for logic. This accounts for the disproportional level of drug addition and emotional problems with geniuses ranging from jazz artists to authors. I believe that when the enviroment puts pressure on a species resulting in population decline, that species will go up on the risk/return barometer in terms of mental structure. Testorone is the hormone accountable for causing autism because it promotes the development of the left hemisphere and stifles the development of the right hemisphere. It also damages the cross hemispheric nerves. This gamble that nature takes resembles the mathametic�s of schotastic (probabilistic) optimization. So it looks as though AS is brought about through threatening or negative environmental factors. In the contempory context this might happen because of extreme poverty that gives rise to the sort of mind that is more probable to remedy the situation. It is higher risk in that AS people are NOT as stable as other people (don�t fool yourself, if you�re AS), so whilst a left hemispheric dominance is not generally optimal for a species, it is in occasional cases highly benefical to the species. This may be accountable for hero�s in warefare and politics. For example in nature if the ecological balance is put out by a species being too prosperous, a virus is likely to emerge from this ecological imbalance because the imbalance will trigger the evolution of a virus. It is the same on a mental level. For example if an economic imbalance was extreme, with a few people controlling all the wealth and everything else being used for the labour as slaves(example in ancient Egypt in which the pharo�s had everything working as slaves) then the poverty would result in a higher level of testlerone in women when the embryo was developing. This would inivetably give rise to a genius such as a revolutionary and then the balance would be reset..

M.O'F.
dublin, ireland - Friday, March 29, 2002 at 12:52:13 (CST)

Mr. HT

I agree with a lot of what you say in your post. Especially your appreciation (invocation) of subtlety & awe and "ancient roots" [see Ozenfant for discussion of the "eternal" or "tropisms" or "constants" in 'all great art']. Unfortunately, I'm a bit 'locked' in terms of 'syllogism' - I can't really control the way my thoughts come to me, or ensure that my meaning follows a logical progession: "syllogism". I guess I could use those arrow thingies and reply to you line by line, but this time I didn't think of that before this reply was nearly complete.

I agree that "communication"/'modality'/language is important. But we daresn't become 'austhete' here - 'Andrew' wouldn't like it. But the *idiom* is already well accounted for in the 'art' world. Except the Soho folks won't allow any of this label stuff; I asked them directly (sent a whole 'thesis'); they stonewalled. So even the worlds of 'artist' and 'autist' are divided, for the time being.

Following that, in the following passage please read "mediocre" as 'neurotypical', and please acknowledge along with me that to be Autistic is to be mediocre *never*:

"The solutions offered by the Alexandrians seem out of date only to those mediocre people who believe that science, the later the better, is synonymous with ultimate truth. But for us, who know that truth in its essence must necessarily escape us, it is from the point of view of 'structure' that thought, feeling, sensation, as applied to differing systems or cosmogonies, are apprecated by us." --Ozenfant, "Foundations of Modern Art", 1952, p. 312

Judging by the recent 'browbeating' of Lillian, I'm thinking that a few among us are finely preserved specimens of our Neandertal ancestor [see Walker, "What is the point of Autism"]. To those who are now reacting to that last sentence: 'Fill your boots' (a term used by soldiers when their pockets were already overburdened with plunder). Meaning, if you're going to use the 'scientism' yardstick to measure your indignation ad nauseam, you're welcome to as much of it as you like. Wallow in indignation - have fun!

But this is *serious* shit. Dig?

The Soho folks understand that, even traditionally, there's an *intermediate* step between 'our world' and the NT world; one that is not precisely defined, one that is valuable for its very lack of definition; one that accommodates vagary - 'mistiness'. One that allows for the spontaneous appearance of *new forms and ideas* [see Murray, et al, "Autism and Computing"]. But how can this 'creative bent' be defended? To answer this, we must first define what exactly are we struggling with.

"When people who speak different languages meet regularly, they invent a form of communication called pidgin." --Attenborough, "The Tribal Eye", 1976, p. 135

Two worlds have collided, here (and elsewhere), and we're frustrated that our attempt at "communication" is still an early form of "pidgin". Which at the moment seems to be just a lot of bitching and complaining - and slamming of neurotypical folk.

Now my syllogism is very tired. Hope this makes sense.

me-me
- Friday, March 29, 2002 at 05:16:19 (CST)

No intent in mind, Emily.
===========================================

Sorry to digress, 'me'. I see your point. Ya'all may now adress me as Mr. HT, autistic. Yo' Dude may work, too. Mr. Dude if I don't like you.

I am still fond of spectral, though. I got to thinking that I don't know the roots of 'autistic' and that it may be a modern invention to label. I dont know.

Spectral has roots in ancient greek ( you might want to check me on that, but I'm pretty sure ). It also implies differences, therefore con-notes some measure of respect.

Communication is a big issue. I mean, according to my experience it is a BIG issue, and not only in autistic circles but in many others with varieties of focci as well.

I think it important to remember and to point back to ancient roots.

Consider : When we talk of talking we open to review about 1 billion years of human history. Ever since that first communique' between life forms On Earth ( ummm, can I say genetic material here ? ) communication has evolved and evolved, has taken on many forms and has been refined and refined and refined until we have the ability to express sublties of spirit and soul as has never been seen or heard before On Earth.

Kind of makes you feel small, no ? And in awe, no ?
=========================================================

Perhaps my words written here are not the best to describe that history, but I think that sense of awe and a little humility are worth sharing and promoting. They are in the enviromental activism circles that I participate in and I think they are worthy of a little focus in autistic circles, too.

One more something on a lighter note: I am having a difficult time calling you me, me.
HT
NY USA - Thursday, March 28, 2002 at 22:55:35 (CST)

Would I mind? No, I wouldn't mind.
E.W.
- Thursday, March 28, 2002 at 16:12:33 (CST)

Hi Emily

I know that you and I have had a bit of a conflict in the past, Emily, so it seems to me. No biggie, either, but...
well ..... Do you mind if I get a little patronizing ?
HT
NY USA - Thursday, March 28, 2002 at 10:27:56 (CST)

No Emily, I don't think "that people with Asperger's aren't autistic". You're wrong. I was diagnosed twice: "Autistic Disorder" then "Asperger's Disorder" - the truth is somewhere inbetween: instead say, *moderately*-functioning for everyone. My point was against stereotyping, against these labels that divide us into 'camps'.

After we've been over these *cliches* a hundred million times more, maybe we'll feel enough self-entitlement to do as Deaf folk have done, and say simply, 'Autistic'. Why don't you feel entitled to do that? FORGET the "bunch of crap" - FORGET the monkey on our backs. Walk on.

While we're at it: amongst these autistic 'friends' of mine, there's another story worth mentioning. A young woman who is now 36, who is now president of her union at the provincial (state) level. As a four year old she would rock and flap and shriek and spend many an hour pounding her face on the stones in the driveway; this was the reason, as we'd soon discover, that there are no photographs of her between the ages of 2 and 5. Said her astonished and relieved mother (on hearing about 'autism'): "We thought the neighbours would think we were beating her black and blue."

Another 'quaint' story, maybe. The myth is that auitism is 'rare' and 'exotic' and 'treatable' and 'horrendous'. My point this time, as above, is that 'autism' isn't rare, and that so-called 'recovery' is nothing close to rare either. In this 'consumer-oriented' society of ours, 'autism' has simply been 'packaged' a certain way. It's not the ingredients on the label that we really have to read so carefully; I say, as I light another cigarette; it's the 'ingredients' that they choose to leave out that we need to...
me
- Wednesday, March 27, 2002 at 23:10:09 (CST)

Do you think, "me", that people with Asperger's aren't autistic? You're wrong. We're on the autistic spectrum just like people with Kanner's and HFA. In fact, Asperger's is just HFA minus the lower intelligence factor. Your statement is akin to saying that people with Type 2 diabetes aren't really diabetic... what a bunch of crap.
E.W.
USA - Wednesday, March 27, 2002 at 21:28:40 (CST)

Did you know, Lillian, that one can tell if a three month old child is republican or not ?

I'll make it easy on you. If the child makes his or her parents leave a restaurant because s/he will not stop crying, it is pretty obvious that s/he is republican.
Anon xxy
Anytown, Earth - Wednesday, March 27, 2002 at 19:59:49 (CST)

What have you done in regard to the overpopulation problem, Lillian ?
Anon xyy
Anytown, Earth - Wednesday, March 27, 2002 at 19:49:41 (CST)

What have you done in regard to the overpopulation problem, Lillian ?
Anon xyy
Anytown, Earth - Wednesday, March 27, 2002 at 19:49:23 (CST)

Dear Lillian

I've been 'friends' with a lot of autistic folk; but these 'friendships' have always come and gone, mainly because me and my 'friends' are *wedged* into environments where we don't belong. In almost every case, our acquaintance, our 'friendship', could not survive the fact that we were continually reacting to this 'imprisonment', which would ultimately unbalance the stability we found in each other.

The point I want to make was found in a 'night and day' demonstration, involving me and one such 'friend'. When I visited this fellow in the city, he was always tense, hyper-intellectual, and talked 'a mile a minute'. No, not 'Asperger's'; autistic.

After several months of getting to know one another, we had a chance to make a trip into the countryside. Here I was astonished by the sudden transformation in my companion. As we ambled slowly along the escarpment, with the trees and vistas all around, I stood still and looked at this 'new' person: transformed. He was pointing. He was smiling. He was silent.

Also I've known autistic folk who have grown up in the city, who are afraid of the 'wildness' of the country. Meaning that I'm not suggesting an 'Arcadian' solution. And even this is only part of what the ultimate 'solution' will be.

I've said my piece.
me
- Wednesday, March 27, 2002 at 10:55:02 (CST)

Hi. I like it here. I'm an NT, (I think)and work with children with Autism Spect... Like Mr.Rogers, I like people just the way they are. Would anyone like to share thoughts on "therapies" like SI, Discrete Trial, Floortime, meds. etc.? What helped you to get to where you are? I'm not studying anyone, I just want to help children to feel better if I can. Even if you say to leave them alone, it will help. If there is a better site for asking for this help, would someone please tell me? Thanks, Lillian

Pittsburgh, PA USA - Wednesday, March 27, 2002 at 08:04:31 (CST)

P.S.
I found the site of Cure Autism Now tonight.

Searching the site for a place to express my special and unique outlook and opinion upon their lead statement, "Cure Autism NOW is a non-profit organization of parents, physicians, and researchers, dedicated to promoting and funding research with direct clinical implications for treatment and a cure for autism.",

a statement that can be found as a header upon many of their pages, I found no place to offer my perspective without giving them money.

I am pissed. I am angry. I am outraged. I am an Aspergers>ADD person of experience.
=========================================

Do they have spectrumites in mind at all ?

Are they practicing genocide ?

=========================================
I apologize in advance to my spectral friends; this message is to "researchers" who study us for whatever their self-declared or un-declared reasons are ( it's because they're stupid, ooops, I mean it's because they've been brought up in ignorance and delusion, but, shhhh, don't tell them that I know, ok ?).

If you researchers and politicians of C.A.N. and/or other spectrum focused organizations want to hear me speak you will have to pay me.

You know I'm on to something.

My posts are upon this board, at http://cybercentre.greenpeace.org//t/s/ ( Greenpeace International ) under the name listenin, and otherwheres, possably available on request.

You know I'm on to something.

This post is inspired in part by the hard-sell reductions doing injustice to all, including spectumites, the next step of human evolution, that are plastered all over the web-sites of C.A.N.

Address the environmental issues that caused me to regress two months before I was born, before I had much of anything to regress from, and you address autism.

You may contact me here:
H.T.
NY USA - Sunday, March 24, 2002 at 19:21:59 (CST)

I'm a 20 year old Aspie who comes from a family with only one NT sufferer. I love this site because it gives a different perspective.
Recently I was asked if I, given the choice of a cure for AS or remaing as I am, what would I do. After about 2 seconds I replyed that I would undoubtly stay AS. I don't mind my lack of social skills or dyspraxia, I am PROUD of my ability to focus on one topic for extraordinary lengths oftime. I said to this indvidual who is of course NT that I am happy with who I am and that is what is important!
A.D.-A.
Mount Annan, NSW Australia - Saturday, March 23, 2002 at 08:46:43 (CST)

Hey, I like BOTH sides of my brain ... Ummm brain ? brain ?..... oh, here it is. whew. Sometimes it keeps me happy.
HT
NY USA - Wednesday, March 20, 2002 at 21:52:16 (CST)

Thank you. This is hilarious and so true. I just learned I may have AS, and I am in my 40s. This site has really cheered me up...
Allen Markman <forbin2k@hotmail.com>
New York, NY USA - Tuesday, March 19, 2002 at 22:49:29 (CST)

"Don't bother voting, it only encourages them." (hehehehe)
ms austhette
- Tuesday, March 19, 2002 at 16:06:54 (CST)

So hey site master :

Are we allowed to discuss stuff here on the political levels, on the environmental levels, on the personal level (s), on the economic levels or what ?

I don't want to turn your board into a chat nor do I want to either support or promote its confusion with e-mail.

Or what ?
HT
NY USA - Tuesday, March 19, 2002 at 10:46:46 (CST)

More science ? At what cost ?
Anonymous
- Monday, March 18, 2002 at 21:08:34 (CST)

these enzymes www.houstonni.com really help.
yup its a mad world
people are shits
andrew
- Saturday, March 16, 2002 at 01:26:33 (CST)

Dear Andrew, I have the same problem myself with boards.
Luckly there's loads, and loads, and loads, of web-space on
the Internet. So there's always somewhere else to put your
stuff when 1, or 2, boards do the dirty on you. People on
these kinds of boards don't like people like me that are at
the slightly more lower end of the autistic spectrum. As
these people always like to think vitamins, or diets, or such like will cure their kids of rubbing muck all over the walls are whatever they do. People always think the doctor
telling them they'll get better is the truth. Even if it's not the truth. Seeing there's no cure whatsoever for autism.
These people get on all the boards. While us lot get taken off. Yes the TRUTH hurts. Although recent years after hearing so much rubbish, talked about this subject, I've become proud of my autism. Sing my praises It's The Rain Man Hallelujah. It's The Real Slim Shady. Love you all. And Thanx for the web-space I've taken up. David C. Miedzianik
Say...Med-Gen-Nick.
David Christopher Miedzianik <davidmiedzianik1@activemail.co.uk>
Rotherham, South Yorkshire England UK - Friday, March 15, 2002 at 06:10:40 (CST)

i was rather saddened and joyous to finally go on #autfriends on scorcerynet and not be banned or kicked off the server. actually i was so happy to be there, op and all after being banned all these years and that perseverative
network ban by some uk son of bitch, god i can't even remember his nick and none of the precious ones there,
ultra austhetes preoccopied with thier own validity and objective understanding can go to hell or be put under thumbscrews at least....
bitches
andrew
- Friday, March 15, 2002 at 04:41:44 (CST)

Thanx for the e-mail Howard. I've now finally seen your e-mail. As I can only get them on my Interactive TV at my house in South Yorkshire. As I'm not fully sure how e-mails
and such like work in the USA. You haven't upset me. It's just that I've not been able, to get back to people, with being in the USA. I've not got back to you for the above reason, or reasons? By the way autism is something to be proud of and not cured. I've just come back from the USA with a bad leg. Maybe something to do with my jet travel back? I don't know. The doctor has given me some pills for this. And told me to rest up. It's stuff like bad legs, and stuff like that, that need curing. And NOT autism. Autism has given me an eye opener, as to how people are. I wouldn't like this eye opener, taken off me by any cure or such like. I'm not very popular on these kinds of boards,
for saying this kind of stuff. And I've had loads of messages taken down from boards. As there's loads of money to be, made out of selling cures for autism etc, that don't work. So there's hard money to be made out of LYING to people. Where loads of money is involved common sense seems to go out of the window. And into the hands of a gang of CROOKS. Anyone want to do more songs about me? It's The Rain Man Hallelujah. It's The Real Slim Shady too. Love you all. David C. Miedzianik Say...Med-Gen-Nick.
PS. I'm the 1st AUTISTIC MALE, to have written an autobiography, so I've been told.

David Christopher Miedzianik <davidmiedzianik1@activemail.co.uk>
Rotherham, South Yorkshire England. UK - Wednesday, March 13, 2002 at 04:37:16 (CST)

Having been born in a valley, David, but raised in the mountains, I am familiar with a variety of ways
of communicating.

For example, there is e-mail, chat and board , all three parts of internet-ese.

And there is vocalization. Less contemplative and more transitory than any written language, vocalization
is part of our genetic heritage.

There are the metaphorics of poetics, poetry and poesis, all with different roots, different strengths and different weaknesses.

And there is the sophisists languages of challenge, regress and sustain. Understood by many, best I not leave
that out, huh ?

Yes, David, having been born in a valley but raised on a mountain I am familiar with a variety of ways of communicating, but Plain English is rather new to me.

Peace, Joy, Light,
HT
NY USA - Tuesday, March 12, 2002 at 00:04:56 (CST)

Having been born in a valley, David, but raised in the mountains, I am familiar with a variety of ways
of communicating. For example, there is e-mail, chat and board , all three parts of internet-ese.
And there is vocalization. Less contemplative and more transitory than any written language, vocalization
is part of our genetic heritage.
There are the metaphorics of poetics, poetry and poesis, all with different roots,
different strengths and different weaknesses.
And there is the sophisists languages of challenge, regress and sustain. Understood by many, best I not
that out, huh ?
Yes, David, having been born in a valley but raised on a mountain I am familiar with a variety of
ways of communicating, but Plain English is rather new to me.

Peace, Joy, Light,
HT
- Monday, March 11, 2002 at 23:57:29 (CST)

Sorry I sometimes have trouble with these computers here
in the USA. David C. Miedzianik. (Sorry for the repeated
message).
David Christopher Miedzianik <davidmiedzianik1@activemail.co.uk>
Denver, Colorado USA - Thursday, March 07, 2002 at 11:29:07 (CST)

Dear Caio or Ciao, Which autism journal is that a quote
from? I like those that get nearer to the truth about the
subject. Like the 1,000's of letters that people like us
have written off trying to get on in life. Only to get
letters back saying "We'll let you know". Or rather we'll
let you "ner na, ner na, ner". If anyone has anymore offers
of songs about me you can e-mail me at
davidmiedzianik1@activemail.co.uk
I'm off back to England again tomorrow. So I'm not all
that happy today. As there's nothing much for anyone like
me in England. It's The Rain Man Hallelujah.
Love you all. David C. Miedzianik Say..Med-Gen-Nick.
(PS. If you get replies back at all that is?).
David Christopher Miedzianik <davidmiedzianik1@activemail.co.uk>
Denver, Colorado USA - Thursday, March 07, 2002 at 11:23:26 (CST)

Ciao David Christopher Miedzianik,
premetto che quanto ti dico � la mia esperienza da utilizzatore e non da informatico esperto e chi tra noi ne sa di pi� � benvenuto e magari potr� correggere le inesattezze.
Rhumboldt
- Tuesday, March 05, 2002 at 13:27:54 (CST)

Dear Tim All, Let's have messages in PLAIN ENGLISH please.
It always makes me think that people have something to cover
up when they use language like that. Just like those people
that write stuff with big words trying to prove that diets,
and stuff like that, either help autism a lot, or cure it,
etc. A gang of crooks the lot of them no doubt? I'm proud
of my autism. Sing my praises It's The Rain Man Hallelujah.
3 downloads of such songs are on Internet search on miedzianik
Lycos, Google Yahoo, etc. The Real Slim Shady. David C.
Miedzianik Say...Med-Gen-Nick. PS. Don't forget to send me
the cheque on, if anyone writes this off into a book ever.
As I'm sick of being ripped-off. Game for anything if you're
autistic aren't you? I don't suffer from autism. I suffer
from other people.

David Christopher Miedzianik <davidmiedzianik1@activemail.co.uk>
Denver, Colorado USA - Monday, March 04, 2002 at 11:17:24 (CST)

Tim, All,

That's quite a comprehensive piece you dated febuary 22, Tim. I would not debate you, but offer a challenge to one point you've made and an expansion upon one other.

Though I find the challenge and the expansion relative to each other, first the challenge. You cite B.F, Skinner so : "As B.F. Skinner pointed out, people can't read other people's minds. After all, consciousness is, by its very nature, a subjective phenomenon. "I know that I am conscious, but I cannot know that you are conscious."
Skinner's basic idea here is that science should focus on things that can be independently observed by two or more individuals. Since we can't read other people's minds, we should just observe the inputs (environment) and outputs (behavior), treating the brain as a "black box." Then see what sort of rules you can come up with for relating various combinations of inputs to outputs."

You seem seeking to or struggling with view of interpretations of mind in black and white, favoring a nature of duality, an over-simplifcation of much of what we are. My perspective is that I feel it. If refuted with a belief that we have left the primitive behind so also is my perspective refuted. If accepted that we somehow carry the primitive with us and it can be found within, then the perspective has validity.

Which leads me to the expansion. Re-spect of Elders, though not as deep and ancient a part of our genetic heritage as either male and female or the pursuit of food, is part of our genetic heritage none the less. Hu-man, as is most of the great apes, including the revered bonobo, are a highly inter-dependent social group. Deferment of decision, of direction of action, of the will of the group, is granted in varying degrees to those with the most experience and the strength to express that experience.
Though re-spect of Elders is not as deep, ancient and obvious as male and female or the pursuit of food, it is a higher, more complex and subtle part of our genetic heritage. It is re-spect of Elders that gives place for community and not just a duality of "you and I".
Though part of the natural composition of mind, re-spect of Elders is challenged and denied on the political level. Yes, though I already regret bringing it up, democracy, giving a suggestion of voice to many amounts to Elders not being heard at all.
It is the conflicts of this rampant denial of respect of Elders that brings me to conclude with : to whom should we assign the label of primative ?
Those ancients may have seen only the dynamics and dangers of thier own locale, but are we only one unique form of life on Earth ? Or are we truely part of a greater life, one unlike any of it's parts, known as Gaia ? Or are we both ?
Our nearest cousins, the bonobo along with all the other great apes may be extinct in another five to ten years. Extinction is forever.
If any wish to take action in oposition of their and our loss, you can find information on their demise, the loss of their habitat and on actions to take here : http://www.panda.org/species/apes.cfm
HT
NY USA - Sunday, March 03, 2002 at 23:00:11 (CST)

May I share your vent, jim ? That sounds very familiar ( though it's been a while since I participated in formal education). If you feel like rationalizing the conflict, try this : "NT's", the majority, like to reduce .... oh, just about everything, I guess, expressing whatever as simpler than it actually is. Therefore those multiple choice answers are really often, if not always, actually only part of the whole answer as you understand it. And, not to do what I write of, the problem may be compounded by some desire to expand the mc answer again in some attempt to restore the reduction, therefore skewing the whole perspective.

For example, it's like comparing " This road will take us to grandmas house by way of the farm" to "Let's go there"

Oh, to respond to your poll : ESSAYSSSSSS ; )
HT
NY USA - Sunday, March 03, 2002 at 15:39:24 (CST)

I'd choose an essay test. I'm *so* much better at those than at multiple choice tests.
Emily Wallner <silverbean3@hotmail.com>
MN - Saturday, March 02, 2002 at 16:00:27 (CST)

I like your site. It's funny the way you parody all of that weird stuff that the "experts" write about autism, etc.
JJG <->
-, il USA - Saturday, March 02, 2002 at 00:07:14 (CST)

Poll: You're taking a test in college/school. Do you want an Essay test or a Multiple choice test (Note: the multiple choice tests covers applications and concepts not just memorized defintions).

Personally, these multiple choice tests are killing me! I know the correct answer, but never can find it in the available options. I then proceed to choose the best guess and write what I know (essay) off to the side so I can talk to the teacher about it later. The teacher inevitably responds that most of the other students weren't confused over the question and the problem is mine (even though real life is NOT a multiple choice test and these test are supposed to be an indicator of such performance). Just venting...
jim <jimcarnell@juno.com>
- Thursday, February 28, 2002 at 00:49:21 (CST)

Strange things about NTs' information-processing:

/1/ Despite daily experience, they believe (and, worse yet, teach others to believe) that "you can't add apples to oranges," (What about fruit-salad? What about going shopping and putting apples and oranges into the same bag? - an NT will *do* that, all right, but s/he won't admit that s/he or anyone *can* do that. What about those math-problems that say: "Johnny had 2 apples and then Mary gave him 5 oranges - how many fruits did Johnny have altogether"? The same NT math-teachers who assign these problems, and who rightly expect the factually-correct solution "2 apples + 5 oranges = 7 fruits" will nevertheless also tell their students NEVER to add apples to oranges. One can only speculate on the destructive impact this may exert on the math-capabilities (let alone the very sanity) of the NT *or* AS minds trapped in that contradictory classroom.

/2/ NTs also hallucinate (and teach others to hallucinate) that a description can ever include "all" about anything (e.g., that a map includes everything about the territory, or that the structure of their native language matches the structure of the universe - e.g., English distinguishes between "events" and "objects," but the real world apparently doesn't: ask any quantum-physicist.) So, in the all-too-frequent instances when untreated NT individuals enter the teaching-profession, these NT teachers will give their NT or AS students an assignment to write an essay titled "All About Me," for instance ... then, when the AS student does his/her level best to fulfill the teacher's impossible expectation by putting in, literally, *every* detail s/he possibly can, the NT teacher who assigned this impossible task considers it "inappropriate" that the AS kid actually tried so hard to DO what the teacher (like other NT adults in the environment) apparently wanted! Even the NT-created legal system requires telling "the whole truth" - as if a series of vocal statements could possibly equal or fully represent the whole observable reality of any situation. Yet an AS individual who pointed this out would certainly face a fine/imprisonment for contempt of court.)

/3/ NTs also hallucinate (and teach others to hallucinate) that it makes sense to describe differing objects/events as "the same" (not just similar - like the two hyphens in this sentence - but actually "the same"). They apparently consider such nonsense not only sensible but essential. For instance - many textbooks on logic (written by NTs) include as an axiom (an essential and "obviously right" statement that doesn't need proving) the statement that "A is A." This actually makes sense, in some weird and blurred way, to NTs - unlike the rest of us, they don't notice (and don't believe others can notice) that the two A's differ. (We cannot say that one of these A's somehow "is" the other, because ... the first "A" and the second "A" do not have the same location ... the first "A" and the second "A" do not have the same age: I typed the first "A" a little before I typed the second "A" ... the first "A" and the second "A" do not have the same component atoms (they have different sets of pixels or ink-molecules ... and they don't emit the same sets of photons ... etc., etc ... ) to say that one of these A's somehow "is" the other (which NTs apparently don't mind saying) makes no more sense than saying that twins "are" the same individual.)
Kate Gladstone <kate@global2000.net>
Albany, NY USA - Tuesday, February 26, 2002 at 21:47:31 (CST)

Dear Tim, Can you write that out again in English this time?
If anyone ever writes this board off into a book, then don't
forget to send me the cheque on. As I'm fed-up of doing things for nothing. Anyone want to sing my praises? As it's The Rain Man Hallelujah. See what you can do someone? As it costs me loads advertising in the music press over this NME,
Kerrang!, Terrorizer, etc, etc. My photos, info, and poetry, are on Internet search on miedzianik Lycos, Google, Yahoo, etc. I know that songwriters look at poetry sometimes for ideas for songs. And mine is up there on the Internet. Love you all. David C. Miedzianik xxxx
Say..Med-Gen-Nick. PS. I'm 45 and I have autism. I don't suffer from autism. As other people do that job for me.
David Christopher Miedzianik <davidmiedzianik1@activemail.co.uk>
Denver, Colorado USA - Tuesday, February 26, 2002 at 21:06:49 (CST)

Pattern Recognition,
Theory of Mind,
the Autism Spectrum,
and Evolutionary Biology

by Tim Kuklinsky

Summary

People on the Autism spectrum seem to be lacking certain pattern-recognition software that NTs have more-or-less hard-wired into their brains. Someone with a background in AI and pattern recognition might be more inclined to view this as an asset than a liability. For one thing, pattern-recognition software can be awful kludgy (especially when hacked together by evolutionary trial and error) not to mention hogging up more than its fair share of cerebral real-estate. Being able to recognize the difference between a smile and a frown might come in handy in a Paleolithic society, where the people you see every day are mostly friends and relatives. However, the software required to perform this "simple task" takes up about as much space in your brain as memorizing the entire Encyclopedia Britannica. In a world where facial expressions are no longer reliable indicators of other people's mental states, a world in which routine deception has become endemic, freeing up a few cubic centimeters of brain for other tasks might be a worthwhile trade-off. By discarding some old software, we lose the ability to "wave bye bye," but gain the ability to "memorize tram lines in Vienna down to the last stop." The down side is that we are on the bleeding edge of evolution, with all that it entails.

Mental Maps and Models

Mathematically speaking, a "map" and a "model" are basically the same thing, so I'm going to use these two words interchangeably.

The human mind is like a room full of maps and models. For example, you might have some roadmaps, topographic maps, maps showing political boundaries, maps for zoning ordinances, etc.

The people at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena have all these pictures of Mars taken from different angles and altitudes, with different lenses and cameras. One group there has managed to combine these pictures into a three-dimensional model of the entire planet. Only there's a problem: a huge percentage of the original data must be ignored or discarded when you try to fit all the maps together.

Let's say you've got extremely detailed pictures of a few places on Mars, plus many less-detailed pictures of the rest of the planet. When creating the 3D model, you have to decide what the resolution will be. For example, will it show details as small as one meter? If so, more than 99 percent of the model will need to be left blank, with a big sign saying, "data not available." On the other hand, if the smallest details were ten kilometers, you would get the whole planet, but end up throwing away huge amounts of data from the more detailed pictures. That's what happens when you try to integrate different maps or models: to get the data to fit the model, you have to ignore or discard a lot of information.

Because those pictures of Mars are so expensive to acquire, NASA doesn't throw them away, even after they've been integrated into a 3D model. After all, they still contain huge amounts of valuable data. Plus, NASA can afford to store it. However, in many similar situations (outside of NASA) the original data gets tossed out because it would be too expensive to store.

The human brain seems to have the ability to do both: toss out some information (especially after it's been integrated into a fuller model) or save it in long-term memory, details and all. Or, our brains can also do both at the same time: try to integrate it, but try to save as much of the original data as possible.

A lot depends on the strengths and limitations of your individual brain, and on how "expensive" it is to perform each of these tasks. For example, some people have really huge long-term memory. For them, "long-term memory is cheap," so they can store a whole bunch of raw data, without having to hurry up and integrate it into some larger model. When they finally do get around to integrating it, the "3D" models they create tend to be quite complex and sophisticated. People with smaller long-term memories have the "long-term memory is expensive" problem. When information comes into their brains, they have to hurry up and integrate it before it gets purged to make room for something else.

Pattern Recognition

Karl Popper, in his book "The Logic of Scientific Discovery," has this interesting pattern-recognition problem. The gist of it goes like this. 1, 2, 3, what's the next number? Most people would say 4, but there are actually an infinite number of possible answers. For example, 2 is 100 percent greater than 1, 3 is fifty percent greater than 2, so following that pattern, the next number would be three and three-quarters. Or you could add 1.000001 to the previous number, then round off the result to the nearest integer. If you have simplistic pattern-recognition software hard-wired into your brain, you tend to miss stuff like that.

The monkey story goes something like this: a monkey swinging through the trees reaches for what it thinks is a branch, only it turns out to be a poisonous snake. The snake bites the monkey. The monkey dies. The reason the monkey died is because its image-recognition software couldn't tell the difference between a branch and a snake. (I can't remember where I read this, but I think it was in "Leonardo's Mountain of Clams and the Diet of Worms" by Stephen Jay Gould.)

According to the author (Gould, I presume) the monkey's brain did exactly what it was supposed to do. Which struck me as rather odd, until I read the explanation that followed. It went something like this: on these islands north of Australia, they have these lizard-like pre-reptile thingies. They look like iguanas, or little dinosaurs, only they're more primitive than dinosaurs. They live in these holes in the ground, like tunnels or something, and basically they just sit at the entrance to the tunnel and wait for food to walk by. If any living thing walks within their field of view, they flick their tongues out and eat it. They never hunt, or move about, or chase anything: they just sit there, waiting for food to walk within reach.

These creatures have very primitive brains, which is a good thing. Why? Because primitive brains are good at conserving metabolic energy. It's like having a portable computer with very little memory, running simple software: it can go for a long time without having to recharge the batteries. If you're a wild animal, conserving metabolic energy is hugely important. So this creature has some kind of image-processing software that says: "if it moves, it must be food." Since there are no predators on these islands, the creature's little brain doesn't even have to distinguish between "food" and "danger."

The monkey that died had a similar energy-saving feature: a brain that didn't waste calories trying to run sophisticated image-processing software. Like that reptile-thingy, it had a brain that was really good at mental shortcuts, making assumptions, and jumping to conclusions. For the average monkey, the cost-benefit ratios make sense: on average, the monkey is better off saving the calories for something that's more likely to come up in everyday life. It's just that every once in a while you get eaten by a snake.

ToM

Among the models we create in our minds are models of other people's minds. Which is where the Theory of Mind thing comes in.

In simplest terms, Theory of Mind means understanding that other people have thoughts and feelings, without necessarily making any assumptions about what those thoughts and feelings might be.

Advanced Theory of Mind involves something called first-order belief attribution (creating a mental model of someone else's mental models, e.g., "I think that she thinks...)

Then there's something called second-order belief attribution ("I think that he thinks that I think..." or "I think that she thinks that he thinks...").

The point of the famous Sally and Ann experiments is to measure (or confirm the existence of) Theory of Mind, including first- and second-order belief attributions. The subjects are usually 3- and 4-year old children, or people with various learning disabilities (plus control groups).

For example, there was this one study where people laid down in a functional MRI machine and read Sally and Ann stories. In NTs, area 9 of the prefrontal cortex lit up when they tried to figure out which box Sally would think the marble was in, while people on the Autism spectrum were using area 8A. (Or something like that.)

On the other hand, it kind of makes you wonder that people with PhDs would be asking three- and four-year-old children to attribute mental states to a pair of blind anencaphilitics. In case you're not familiar with this condition, "anencephaly" is when a baby is born without a brain. There's usually a brain-stem to regulate basic body functions, like heartbeat and respiration. It even suckles like a normal baby. But hold its head up to the light, and you can see light shining through from behind the eyes: the skull is filled with cerebrospinal fluid where the brain out to be. That's the first thing people on the Autism spectrum notice about Sally and Ann: not just that they're blind, but that they have no brains. That's because Sally and Ann are dolls. They're not real people.

Unfortunately, NTs, even NTs with PhDs, have this pattern-recognition software that causes them to attribute mental states to inanimate objects.

Then there's the whole deception thing. Notice that the whole point of the exercise (from the subjects point of view) is: "Let's deceive somebody. That would be a really fun thing to do, right?" Well, no, actually. Why on earth would anyone want to do that?

So if a little child fails the Sally and Ann test, we can't really be too sure what it is that they've failed: ability to attribute mental states to inanimate objects, ability to engage in deception, or ability to imagine hypothetical situations involving deception of inanimate objects.

To get some idea of where these experiments are coming from, lets look at some other experiments along the same lines.

Jean Piaget came up with one involving a glass of water poured into a shallow container, where children of various ages were asked, "Is the amount of water still the same?" or "Which container has more water in it?" (the children saw the water being poured into the other container).

There was another experiment where they put an insect in a glass of water and asked young children to drink the water, even with the insect in it. Below a certain age (like about 3 or 4), children were willing to do this: the insect didn't bother them. Children a year older refused because the insect was "disgusting," but they were willing to drink it once the insect was removed. Another year older, and they refused even after the insect was removed, because the water was "contaminated."

One more example: from Steven Pinker's "Words and Rules." In English we have this rule that says: put an "s" at the end of a verb if it occurs in the third person singular (but only in the simple present tense, active voice, indicative mood). There are also some rules for how to append the "s" (for example, when to pronounce it like a "z", when to put an "e" in front of it), not to mention the spelling rules for doing this (although the spelling rules aren't really relevant here).

Native English-speakers usually master this rule over a period of about 3 months, some time between their 3rd and 4th birthdays. Up to a certain point they never put an "s" on the end of a verb. Then they start experiment with the "s" rule, and within about 3 months put the "s" where it belongs a least 85 percent of the time, and put it where it doesn't belong less than 3 percent of time.

Point being: there is a particular stage in development when your brain is ready to learn this particular thing. Like a "window of opportunity." Try learning it later in life (for example, if you're learning English as a second language) and you're going to have a lot more difficulty.

Which is the whole point of these sorts of experiments.

So the theory goes that people on the Autism spectrum have trouble getting through this particular stage of development that (presumably) involves Theory of Mind, and consequently miss out on a whole bunch of other stuff that depends on it. It's sort of like failing to learn the rules of grammar because of a hearing problem, or failing a school assignment because of undiagnosed color-blindness.

The main problem seems to be that psychologists tend not to be quite as careful as linguists when it comes to the nitpicky details, especially the sorts of details that could radically alter our understanding of what's really going on.

Linguists have figured out long ago that most adults couldn't explain the s-rule (for verbs) if their lives depended on it. That's because they've never really had to think about it (or it was so long ago, they can't remember having learned it).

When parents try explaining the rules of grammar to their children, the parents almost always get it wrong. Parents also tend to get it wrong when they try to explain how mechanical things work (unless the parents happen to be engineers). Plus they tend to get it wrong when trying to explain social rules.

As Steven Pinker points out, children tend to suffer developmental delays in particular language skills that their parents try to "help" them with, but usually do just fine when left to pick it up on their own.

Compare the kind of grammar you learn in high-school (like "don't split you infinitives") with the sort of grammar they teach in college-level linguistics. The first sort is normative, i.e., rules that look good on paper, but only work about half the time in the real world. The second sort of grammar (in college-level linguistics) is descriptive (i.e., the underlying rules that describe how people actually talk - most of these rules are invisible to the average person).

In case you're not familiar with the concepts "normative" and "descriptive," think of a thermostat set to 72 degrees F when the actual temperature is 68. In this example, normative is what the temperature ought to be (72), while descriptive is the thermometer's (imperfect) attempt to tell you what the temperature is, bearing in mind that thermometers only model one aspect of reality (temperature) and imperfectly at that. There is also something called "imperative": the thermostat giving an order to the furnace, telling it to turn on.

We have something similar in grammar: verbs in the indicative mood are used for descriptive stuff; the imperative mood is used for imperative stuff (including instructions, like "attach part A to part B"); while subjunctive forms are used for hypothetical situations, of which normative ones are a subset. Notice also that the thermostat doesn't need to be intelligent or have a conscious goal, even though it behaves as if it did: i.e., a simple feedback mechanism produces "goal-oriented behavior" (in this case, turning the furnace on and off, as needed, to maintain temperature within a prescribed range).

Human organizations (like bureaucracies and what-not) have a tendency to function as living organisms (i.e., systems of imperative rules, like DNA or self-replicating computer programs). Usually these "organizational organisms" have normative systems (e.g., ideologies or "mission statements") to explain why they do things a certain way. Normative systems are used to persuade people to participate in and support the organization, even when the organization is not actually achieving its stated goals, or even moving in that direction. So organizations then promote descriptive systems (e.g., theories, scientific or otherwise) to back up their claims that following the organization's commandments will produce the results claimed. End result: descriptive systems tend to get hijacked into the service of normative systems, which, in turn, have been enslaved to serve imperative systems (the latter functioning as living organisms).

So when we're trying to explain to kids "how things work," much of what we're doing is repeating some propaganda we vaguely remember having heard somewhere, oblivious to the fact that we don't have the slightest idea what we're talking about.

When you are testing children to see if they understand something, you should first check to see if the researchers understand it, or if they are just relying on "institutional folk-wisdom." Example: the law of conservation of volume. Marshmallows, pillows, and other soft squishy things don't seem to obey that one. Neither does a glass of water if you let it sit on a windowsill for a few days: some of the water magically disappears. In fact, the law of conservation of volume is relevant mainly to a narrow range of mechanical problems, of the sort you might encounter in cooking (while following a recipe), or in a high-school chemistry class. Otherwise, it just doesn't come up all that much, and has too many exceptions.

On the other hand, experiments like this, when done properly, can provide good insights and be very helpful. Example: children with certain kinds of dyslexia have been greatly helped by listening to recordings that have been digitally slowed down, in particular, where certain very brief speech-sounds have been stretched out a bit. In two weeks, these kids make about two years worth of progress in language-comprehension and reading (i.e., they were about two years behind, and suddenly caught up). The problem was that they just couldn't hear certain speech-sounds until they understood what they were supposed to listen for. After hearing the digitally altered recordings, they learned how to produce those sounds with their own mouths, and then said, "Oh, now I get it!"

Mind-Reading

As B.F. Skinner pointed out, people can't read other people's minds. After all, consciousness is, by its very nature, a subjective phenomenon. "I know that I am conscious, but I cannot know that you are conscious."

Skinner's basic idea here is that science should focus on things that can be independently observed by two or more individuals. Since we can't read other people's minds, we should just observe the inputs (environment) and outputs (behavior), treating the brain as a "black box." Then see what sort of rules you can come up with for relating various combinations of inputs to outputs.

As long as this approach is just one of several tools in your conceptual toolkit, it's probably not a bad one. What I like about it (in the context of this discussion) is the idea that we can't read other people's minds.

People have a knack for mistakenly attributing consciousness and personality to things that are probably not conscious. People in primitive tribes, for example, might view a thunderstorm as a living being, maliciously hurling thunderbolts at innocent people.

This "anthropomorphizing" actually served a useful purpose: nature is filled with dangerous things like raging rivers or thunderstorms that need to be treated with respect, so attributing personality to them probably wasn't such a bad idea. Especially if your brain is already geared to dealing with "personality" issues.

Example: there's a famous logic problem where you have three cards laying on a table, with a letter on one side, a number on the opposite side, and you have to figure out which card to turn over to answer a particular question. When presented as a logic problem involving cards with letters and numbers, most graduate students majoring in logic come up with the wrong answer. But translate the problem into human terms, and the average 12-year-old can figure it out: Three people walk into a bar; two order non-alcoholic drinks, the other orders a beer. Question: who should the bartender card? Answer: the one who ordered the beer. In the pure-logic version of the problem, each card has an "A" (for alcohol) or an "N" (for non-alcoholic beverage) on one side. The other side has a number indicating the age of the person (e.g., 18, 25, etc.)

Which just goes to show that people have this inborn ability to process information about other people (including hypothetical ones), and that these mental processes work differently from the way we process information about inanimate objects.

Anyway, I've just noticed that I'm rambling here, so let me wrap up with two final thoughts, one on the concept of "person," the other on "the bleeding edge of evolution."

Lately I've been working on this semantic net project dealing with countries and their administrative subdivisions. One of the issues that came up is: what is a country? And the answer I arrived at was: a type of person. Here's where I'm coming from on this. First, you have these two code systems for representing countries and high-level administrative subdivisions: FIPS 10-4 (that's short for Federal Information Processing System Publication 10-4) and this other one called ISO-3166-2. Now if you look at Appendix F of the CIA World Factbook, you'll notice that the ISO code for French Polynesia includes Clipperton Island, while FIPS 10-4 counts Clipperton Island as a separate country-level entity. So you're probably wondering: what's up with that? So what I figured out: French Polynesia is in the South Pacific Ocean, while Clipperton Island is way over by Mexico, in the North Pacific Ocean. So FIPS is looking more at the physical geography of the situation, while ISO is looking at something else. But what? Look at the title of the ISO publication, and you'll see that it's actually a code for the names of countries and their subdivisions. The key concept here is "names."

A country is actually an organization that functions as a person (by virtue of being "recognized" as such, legally). Furthermore, personhood is itself an irreducible high-level concept that exists only by virtue of "recognition." No matter how complicated the organizational structure (or what sort of territories it has jurisdiction over, bearing in mind that there are many types of jurisdiction), the whole thing can be summed up as "a type of person."

Since countries are always having revolutions, conquering each other, and stuff like that, it's often hard to tell when an old country has gone out of existence, and a new one come into being. So the ISO just focuses on the name (specifically, the "short name" like Yugoslavia, as opposed to the "long name" like Federal Socialist Republic of Yugoslavia). As long as the short name hasn't changed, ISO considers it the same country. In effect, the name is like a mask, the sort used by primitive tribes, or in Greek drama, where the mask has a personality and reputation of its own, independently of the actor behind it.

Anyway, that was just a thought.

The other thing about the bleeding edge of evolution is this: pregnancy is a disease caused by retrovirus that has wormed its way into the genome of viviparous (live-bearing) mammals. Before our ancestors got infected with it, a female's normal response to having a fertilized egg in its body was to secrete a cyst around it (i.e. an eggshell) then expel it from its body (i.e., lay an egg). The whole process is mediated by the immune system, i.e., getting rid of the (genetically) foreign body. But after this virus infected us, it suppressed the normal immune response, and we ended up with pregnancy and live-birth instead of egg-laying. But there must have been a million times when this happened with horrendously bloody results, until one day, just by luck, some other thing happened to make the whole process viable.

Today, pregnancy is still a bloody mess, because we have a pelvis good for walking on two legs, which narrows the birth canal, but our heads have gotten too big. To compensate for this, children are born 6 months prematurely (i.e., normal gestation for a species our size ought to be 15 months). Which means we've problems piled on top of problems, all the result of various evolutionary compromises.

So I'm just saying, I think this Autism spectrum is sort of like that. It's an evolutionary compromise still searching for a middle ground, still bouncing around chaotically, with a lot of plain and suffering. My guess is that we may end up in some sort of symbiotic relationship with humans. (I am tempted to quip, "we run the computers, they shovel the coal.")

It's often been said that people on the Autism spectrum are "more like chimpanzees," or "like children." As Stephen Jay Gould points out in "Ontogeny and Phylogeny," they used to say that about "primitive savages" back in the bad old days. Problem is: more like children (neoteny) is the opposite of "more like chimpanzees," since humans are neotenous relative to chimps. (Plus nobody ever mentions bonobos.)

By the way, has anyone read that book in the Barnes and Noble catalog about the English East India Company? They inadvertently ended up running India by helping the Mughal Empire upgrade its information infrastructure. Some spooky parallels here.

Tim Kuklinsky

22 February 2002

Tim Kuklinsky
- Saturday, February 23, 2002 at 11:55:07 (CST)

Thank you, as a mother of an Autistic 6 yer old I found your site while browing a page about Autism. We are going through a rough patch with our son and I thnak you so much for the laughter and joy I founf here. Your words on the start page are so very true. Diferently not flat, not nonempathetic, just different.
Again ,THANK YOU
Blessings
Melanie Ihmels
Melanie Ihmels <mihmels@shaw.ca>
Kelowna, Canada - Thursday, February 21, 2002 at 14:06:02 (CST)

Tonight (Feb 15th), watch ABC's 20/20 on school bullying...

http://abcnews.go.com/onair/2020/stossel_020215_popularity.html
Wyldcelt
- Friday, February 15, 2002 at 13:35:35 (CST)

I guess people would evaluate me being a NT, but I think something else... everybody is different and even between NT we don't get to understand each other. I work with autistic children and adults and I try to see them only as having another way to look at the world. Our world. I find your site more then interresting 'cause it gets to what NT think of themselves, being superior but I'm gonna tell you something, I've never seen a human so emotionnal and intense as the so sweet children I work with. They give me more everyday then and NT could do in a year! Thank you for this gift you give to the world, you site is incredible!
Genevi�ve Perras <oligen@hotmail.com>
Longueuil, Qc Canada - Saturday, February 09, 2002 at 16:55:44 (CST)

I have found that NT "experts" love to blame all of my son's problems on "autism". Recently they found he wouldn't pay attention when the teacher was working on the board. Jamie's ABA supervisor wrote up a huge battery of drills designed to make Jamie tend to the board.

I asked Jamie why he couldn't pay attention to the board. He said "I can't see it, Mommy."

An eye needed revealed he needed glasses, for the love of God!

My theory is this: NT's tend to look for the most difficult solution to common problems. They just plain think too much.

Liane (NT humbled daily by her autie boys)

Liane Gentry Skye <starmuser@aol.com>
Myrtle Beach, SC USA - Saturday, February 09, 2002 at 09:16:36 (CST)

Whoops....typed my URL wrong below (name click).
Michelle Sarabia <spedusource@yahoo.com>
- Thursday, January 31, 2002 at 23:35:18 (CST)

As both a graduate student in special education and the mother of a child with, well, something or other (nobody can agree...ADD, PDD, Aspergers, Anxiety, or "just" a dreamer?) that interferes with his performance at school, I have found this site to be one of the most enjoyable on the web. Thank you for a good laugh and some good things to think about!
Michelle Sarabia <spedusource@yahoo.com>
Las Cruces, NM 88005 - Thursday, January 31, 2002 at 23:33:02 (CST)

Okay, I think the laughing has calmed enough to type a response :o) It's so nice to know I'm not alone!
Sttar <eego2000@lycos.com>
OR USA - Friday, January 25, 2002 at 22:02:42 (CST)

My compliments for an excellent website. What a revelation to find out about AS. My folks always wondered why I would get "A"'s and "F"'s only, no middle ground there, I study what I'm interested in. Thanks again for creating such a novel site.

Mark Midgett <mark@diaryofmyboringlife.com>
San Francisco, CA USA - Tuesday, January 15, 2002 at 09:41:40 (CST)

I love this site!
My six year old son has recently been diagniosed by the medical profession as having Asperger's (I knew he was by the time he was 3!), my husband and I are both borderline neurotypical (sadly!) but definitely on the continuum. Reading this page had me lol and has really cheered me up. It has confirmed what I already suspected - different is not necessarily disordered!
georgie <georgia@ic24.net>
United Kingdom - Tuesday, January 08, 2002 at 16:20:48 (CST)

Discussion involving an allegendly Asperger young criminal, at FreeRepublic.com ... You all might want to have a look:
direct link to the thread
Wyldcelt
- Sunday, January 06, 2002 at 19:16:27 (CST)

Another good book is Strange Brains and Genius, by Clive Pickover.
Lucy <Lucy@cix.compulink.co.uk>
- Wednesday, January 02, 2002 at 09:27:06 (CST)

I am one of those who was confused about myself until I read about Aspbergers, and recognized myself as a "high-functioning" member of the autistic spectrum.
I love your site!!!!! I will include it under the "Just for Fun" section of my links page at my web site. Thank you for a wonderful addition to the www comunity!
Michelle Sarabia <spedusource@yahoo.com>
Las Cruces, NM USA - Monday, December 31, 2001 at 19:21:07 (CST)

A Happy 2002 to you all. Autism Awareness Year For people
in England. As for me I'm here in Denver right now. "Dear
Slim remember when we met in Denver?". "As I'm the Real Shady
I'm the Real Slim Shady, I'm sick of him". Yes sing my
praises as I'm, The Rain Man Hallelujah too. The Greeks,
or The Geeks, or The Meek, won't inhert the Earth. It will
be us autistic people instead. Once again sing my praises
to the, Artists Wanted Section of the music press. It always
amazes me, how I'm such an artist. As well as being autistic.
Love you all. David C. Miedzianik Say..Med-Gen-Nick.
PS. (I'm 45 years old, as well as being born on 24/7. Yes they're
even saying my praises on The News here. As they're always
saying News 24/7, happy birthday dave)
PPS. "Time is an ocean but it ends 24/7, you might not see the
normals tomorrow".
David Christopher Miedzianik <davidmiedzianik1@activemail.co.uk>
Denver, Colorado USA - Monday, December 31, 2001 at 11:34:44 (CST)

We can draw attention to articles without 'sensationalising' or deceiving people about their content. Yes?
Honesty is counted as one of the extraordinary (if 'old world') merits in autistic folk...
me
- Sunday, December 30, 2001 at 20:24:22 (CST)

........But yeah. Perhaps this isn't the place for all that. I've written to yahoo requesting re-consideration. Let's see if David is still Joyous. If he is ................. well, I may consider it .......... something like troubled waters.

Gods blessings to all ; mine often fall short.

Peace, Joy, Light,
HT
NY USA - Sunday, December 30, 2001 at 14:47:20 (CST)

Whatever your perspective is, you are entitled to it as I am mine.

Genocide is no joke. Wake up.
HT
NY USA - Sunday, December 30, 2001 at 10:21:23 (CST)

Re: www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aspergers_pr.html
This has nothing to do with 'jealousy' or 'hatred' for "Rain Man".
HT, your baiting is not appreciated.
Muskie, do we have to put up with this crap?
me
- Sunday, December 30, 2001 at 06:15:04 (CST)

Did you guys read what that guy wrote at www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aspergers_pr.html ?

It's all about the Rain Man !! The guy is jealous of David !!! He hates him !!!

Just who is this Rain Man ?
Hmmm. Hmmmm........
Hmmmmmm............
............anyway.......

Shall we sing of Silicon Valley Disease ?
I'm asking you to join in a song.
It's been going on and on
and on and on
for oh so long
and on and on
oh yes, for oh, so long

Shall we sing of silicon valley disease ?
Shall we play on the sticks and the stones ?
Shall we play it as multi-part harmonies ?
From a feeling in flesh and our bones ?

Another Step @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stillanotherstep/
HT
NY USA - Saturday, December 29, 2001 at 16:30:04 (CST)

Ummm, that should read - Just keep your distance, you, you....David, you.

Peace.
HT
NY USA - Wednesday, December 26, 2001 at 10:42:29 (CST)

Lemme get this straight, David. Some guy stole your psudonym (sn), and then Howard Stern mocked you ? (Is there anything that Howard Stern *doesn't* laugh at ? )
Hey ! We either have a case or not. Hmmmmm.
Hmmmmmmmmm.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...............
..............
........anyway......

Shall we sing of silicon valley disease ?
Shall we play on the sticks and the stones ?
Shall we play it as multi-part harmonies ?
From a feeling in flesh and our bones ?

Anyway, just keep your distance, David. Jeez, look at what you've got me doing.....
HT
NY USA - Wednesday, December 26, 2001 at 07:42:57 (CST)

On the chance it may lend optimism over the way some neurotypicals perceive Asperger's people, I invite you to look at diagnosingjefferson.com and to stay tuned about another book of mine to be released early next year, titled Asperger's and Self-Esteem.
I have a son of whom I am extremely proud who has Asperger's.
I specialize in identifying great achievers in history who also had Asperger's traits--in nearly every case enough traits to match current diagnostic criteria for A.S.
Norm Ledgin
Norm Ledgin
Oxford Twp., KS U.S.A. - Monday, December 24, 2001 at 15:46:00 (CST)

Go on sing my praises everyone. "I'm The Real Shady, I'm The
Real Slim Shady, I'm Sick Of Him. Remember Those 2 Postcards
you Didn't Answer Me From Denver?" "We're Going To Stick His
---- In Howard Stern He Ain't No Gentleman Slim". Go on all
you Merry Christmas, and a Happy 2002. Autism Awareness Year
with us lot in England. (When I'm back there).
Love you all. David C. Miedzianik
Say...Med-Gen-Nick.
David Christopher Miedzianik <davidmiedzianik1@activemail.co.uk>
Denver, Colorado USA - Monday, December 24, 2001 at 11:12:44 (CST)

You can reach me here.
Emily Wallner <silverbean3@hotmail.com>
- Sunday, December 23, 2001 at 22:32:53 (CST)

Well sing my praises then. Go on then It's The Rain Man
Hallelujah. Love you all. David C. Miedzianik
David Christopher Miedzianik <davidmiedzianik1@activemail.co.uk>
Denver, Colorado USA - Sunday, December 23, 2001 at 18:58:30 (CST)

There's more to this world than just you, you know, David. Jeez, I think I've been spending too much time on that other board.........
magnolia -
- Sunday, December 23, 2001 at 17:33:36 (CST)

David, stop whining. Boy, if you participated on some of the boards I have......... They'd eat you alive.
magnolia-
- Sunday, December 23, 2001 at 16:50:11 (CST)

Emily ! Open up ! I wanna talk to you. Open an account where I found you before (alright, msn ). You can close it later.

David ! Read your mail or trash it ! Your account is overloaded and not accepting any new mail !I wanna talk to you about the same thing.

Some of your posts + some of mine + Lucy ( I think my e-mail got through to her )............

We should talk.....
HT
NY USA - Sunday, December 23, 2001 at 15:37:50 (CST)

Dear Emily, You can now see what people are like. This is
why I've left 2 e-mail servers down. I hope I don't have
to leave a 3rd down? Anyone can contact me, on my activemail
account. If anyone wants to write, please do so with offers,
of more songs about me. Love you all. David C. Miedzianik
Say..Med-Gen-Nick. PS. Remember my poems, etc, are on
Internet search on miedzianik Lycos, Google, Yahoo, etc.
David Christopher Miedzianik <davidmiedzianik1@activemail.co.uk>
Denver, Colorado USA - Sunday, December 23, 2001 at 14:12:25 (CST)

Selective genetic engineering is something that I don't think that I am entirely okay with. If my parents had chosen the option of abortion because they found out in utero that I was autistic, how much different would the world be? If they had chosen to remove the gene for autism in me as an embryo I would be an entirely different person, different than I was meant to be. I think that that is wrong... being able to pick and choose our children is, in my point of view, highly unnatural and unethical. I do not seek a cure for autism or seek to destroy it for doing so would, in essence, be seeking genocide.
Emily Wallner
USA - Saturday, December 22, 2001 at 22:49:27 (CST)

Lucy and all,

I checked out the adress you posted, Lucy, and I damned sure did not read it all. I've heard talk of pre-natal identification of autistic caracteristics for the purpose of abortion before. I feel a need at this time to be blunt. If some wish to call it rude, call it rude.

We of the spectum are the next step of evolution. We are also each different and I'll argue with anybody for each of our rights to speak for and express ourselves, but get that through your calused heads and hearts, please. We are the next step of evolution.

The social hierarchies mentioned have ancient roots, likely from before mamillian life ; more than 60 million years ago. It is natural.

The rejection of a social hierarchy, spectral characteristics, also has ancient roots, most likely in response to gradual stress building in response to drought. It is also natural.

Hu-man, as are all primates, is a highly inter-dependent social group. The stress of some natural disaster is exponentially escalated within the group. Imagine, if you will, a drought. Over several years the food supply dwindles. The stess is exponentially escalated. During this time Momma Ancestor gets pregnant. Baby Ancestor developes exponentially stressed and is born. Baby, being part of a highly socially inter-dependent group learns of both the environment of the group and the group itself. As Baby matures Baby realizes that it is the group itself that is a major cause of stress within the group and further comes to realize that the group within that environment just is not working ; that it is time to move on.

The social hierarchy in such a scenario, clinging to what is, is an anti-survival characteristic. Rejection of the social hierarchy is a survival characteristic.

Now, project that into our 12/22/2001 scenario.

If I only knew 20 years ago that I was born to respect, accepting differences, while most were not, but born to fear.

The world needs to hear of us, my calused friends. That issue of pre-natal detection of autistic caracteristics for the purpose of abortion needs some attention. It needs all the attention it will take to wake the fools up.

The world needs to hear from us, my calused friends. Need I reitterate the fine line between now and global destruction we have been facing these past few months ?
HT
NY USA - Saturday, December 22, 2001 at 20:36:20 (CST)

A Merry Christmas, and Happy Autism Awareness, year 2002 to
all my readers. Love you all. David C. Miedzianik
PS. I'd like someone to make it a Happy New Year for me, by
doing me another song. Something like It's The Rain Man
Hallelujah or something. Say my name..Med-Gen-Nick.
David Christopher Miedzianik <davidmiedzianik1@activemail.co.uk>
Denver, Colorado USA - Thursday, December 20, 2001 at 11:16:23 (CST)

Take a look at www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aspergers_pr.html
An interesting, sympathetic article, yet it talks about 'us' and 'them'. 'A cure for autism' turns out to be identifying the relevant genes so that pregnant women can be tested and offered an abortion if they may be carrying a spectrum child.
It also says spectrum people have problems with social hierarchies because we can't pick up social cues. Maybe it's because we think social hierarchies are so obviously wrong they should be ignored!
lucyrf <lucy@cix.compulink.co.uk>
UK - Thursday, December 20, 2001 at 06:13:39 (CST)

I don't feel that it is important to conform to society. I am quite happy being by my very literal and very Asperger's self and have no wish to become "normal" like everybody else. In my opinion, forcing one's child to conform is detrimental. My mom's a pusher for me to be normal and she, as a result, makes me feel that I am not good enough the way I am for her. I am still an independant person who is very capable to be a member of society even though I choose to abstain from forcing myself to be who I am not.
Emily Wallner
Saint Paul, MN - Tuesday, December 18, 2001 at 22:09:28 (CST)

HI. I am a mother of a moderately autistic 4 year old son. I have nothing against people who are autistic. But I do understand why it is important to "conform" in some shape or form to society. How do I know? Because I came to the US as an adult immigrant, not knowing the social and other rules. I felt awkward talking in english, everything was a strain. But in order to survive, I had to change to a degree. YEs, I "pretend" in many ways, but for survival's sake. My wish for my son is that he is able to be independant for himself in this cruel world, when we are gone, and not left at the mercy of other people. Our aim is his independance. and we ae doing our utmost to make sure it happens.
FAtima Shamsi <arsareen@aol.com>
- Tuesday, December 18, 2001 at 17:05:07 (CST)

I feel a bit bitter and (Twisted) as in the heavy metal track about it all. As I was told when I wrote My Autobiography, that I was the first autistic male in the
World to have done so. I'm now here in Colorado, and I've
got NO invites from the Colorado Autism Society, or anything. I feel like I've got the dirty end, of the stick
all along from people. In a few days it will be Autism Awareness Year 2002. They'll no doubt be NOTHING in it for people like me. The only people it will help, is a few people with a few fat cigars. Over the years I've sent 1,000's of letters out only to be fobbed off most of the time. When 1, or 2, people turn you down you just blame individual people. When it gets into 1,000's of letters you start to blame the WHOLE DARN SYSTEM. Apart from getting
Bob Dylan records played on the radio, and a documentary about me, a few years ago, plus 2 times on our local TV
News Program Calendar, etc, etc, I've not got the recognition I've felt I've deserved to be the FIRST. Anyone else that had written off to the radio, and TV, as much as me through the years, no doubt would have got a job, talking on either one or the other. Yes I feel very bitter,
and TWISTED about it all. I'm very angry about the lack of
Openings, etc, for anyone like me. Letters, and stamps, etc,
are expensive, only to be told they can't do you songs, can't do your poems, give you a voluntary job, etc, etc.
It's not just the cost, but it's the emotional toll it takes on you being told THERE'S NOTHING THEY CAN DO all the time.

Have A Happy New Year 2002.

Fat Cigar people.

As no doubt you will, at the expense of us lot.

David C.
Miedzianik Say...Med-Gen-Nick.
David Christopher Miedzianik <davidmiedzianik1@activemail.co.uk>
Idaho Springs, Colorado USA - Tuesday, December 18, 2001 at 13:21:32 (CST)

Well I'm back in Idaho Springs. I thought I'd spend
Christmas Day, and New Years Day, here in the USA. So I've
come here for another 4 weeks. No invites from any autism
things here. I also seem to have run out of luck, advertising for songs about autism too. Since the heavy metal band Solitary, did me that song Twisted, on their album Nothing Changes. Nothing has changed much for me.
I write off that much to the radio, and the TV, about these
songs, that I begin to wonder if people, have done me songs
about this, without telling me. I wonder if that Spice Girl
was singing It's Raining Men Hallelujah, or if she really ment It's The Rain Man Hallelujah. After I left a few messages about this, on Spice Girls sites etc. Check out
my stuff by sticking miedzianik into Internet search Lycos,
Google, Yahoo, etc. See what you can do about this song
someone? As it's Autism Awareness Year next year 2002. I got a write up in our local newspaper, The Rotherham Star,
about it being Autism Awareness Year, next year etc. I got
nothing back from that. And the only letter I got back from
an article, in our other local newspaper, The Rotherham Advertiser, about something more or less the same, was from
a woman from the church telling me about God etc. Well they
can all sing my praises now It's The Rain Man Hallelujah.
I have so much trouble, with people that write into me about
autism, matters that I very rarely answer this stuff now.
As more times than not people aren't very nice about it. And
I now save myself the trouble, by not answering a lot of this stuff. I used to answer this stuff, but since my mum
died about 9 years ago. I've found that I just can't do with
the additional worry of peoples insults, etc, etc. People
can get My Autobiography, and 2 poetry books, by writing
for an order form from The Early Years Centre. 272 Longdale
Lane. Ravenshead. Nottinghamshire NG15 9AH England. UK.
That's all folks. You can wish me Merry Christmas this year
if you want. As it looks like it will be, up here in The Rocky Mountains.

Love you all.

David C.
Miedzianik Say..Med-Gen-Nick

PS. I'm 45 years old, and I have autism. I don't suffer from autism. As I suffer from other people.

David Christopher Miedzianik <davidmiedzianik1@activemail.co.uk>
Idaho Springs, Colorado USA - Thursday, December 13, 2001 at 13:32:34 (CST)

I do believe, Lorraine, that what you are viewing has a high probability of being the same breakfast cereal.
HT
NY USA - Sunday, December 09, 2001 at 20:11:19 (CST)

Might ISNT have goals in common with CSICON? CSICON is the Committee for Surrealist Investigation of Claims of the Normal.
Lorraine Lee <n8chz@hotmail.com>
Warren, MI ASU (Alternative State of the Union) - Sunday, December 09, 2001 at 13:00:19 (CST)

Hello.

We are two Swedish NT-researchers who now choose to publish our material - the results from 20 years of extensive research on Neurotypical Personality Disorder as we prefer labelling it.

We have formulated a new set of diagnostic criteria for identifying NPD. Professionals must select a diagnostic system to use when examining patients with suspected NT or NPD, but we are sure our suggestions are more up-to-date and more scientifically modern than other competing diagnostic systems (i.e DSN 666.00).

For differentiation against ADHD/ADD/MCD, Asperger's and Tourette's, it is of utter importace having our material published, and information spread amongst affected parents and patient-groups. The prognosis for individuals with this disorder is highly diverse. Some learn after adolesence to take care of themselves for shorter periods. Others are in constant need of company. Many succeed in the working life, preferrably in social professions where they actually can turn their rigid fixation with each other into something prosperous.

Best Regards

Pangloss

Suggestions or comments to: pangloss@creative-minds.info

Pangloss <pangloss@creative-minds.info>
SWEDEN - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 09:14:57 (CST)

I see the fractal elements of the meek, the geeks,the Greeks. I enjoy seeing repetive patterns that have finite boundaries. I also enjoy seeing repetitive patterns that escape to infinity. My 80th birthday is on approach. I am currently researching how anxiety and depression affect the formation and behavior of the cyngulate gyrus. String Theories, Chaos Theories, myth and memorablilia are all grist for my mill. Enough said. Doris Treisman
doris treisman <doristr@earthlink.net>
Berkeley, CA U.S.A - Friday, November 23, 2001 at 10:48:30 (CST)

I very much appreciate this clearsighted approach to "the problem with the neurotypical". I, newly diagnosed with AS, find the "human spectrum" much more interesting, and much wider, than the "NT spectrum". And even if I could behave like a NT, I don�t think I would do so, I find it narrow-minded.
Gunnel Norr� <tuvebo@mbox301.swipnet.se>
Sweden - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 16:57:55 (CST)

Well right now I'm trying to think of the right combinations
of words, to get a response from someone reading this, about a song about autism in general, or me. 3 downloads of such songs are on Internet search on miedzianik by the way.
(Lycos, Google, Yahoo, etc).

I keep trying to get another write-up in my local newspaper
The Rotherham Star about this. As it's Autism Awareness Year next year 2002 here in England. So I thought I might as well play on this, to try and get some more write-ups in the press etc.

I've also taken out some adverts in the NME, about this too,
under Classified Adverts, Artists Wanted. There's 2 of my adverts in again this week by the way. See what you can do someone? It's always been my ambition to get Bob Dylan to do such a song, but as the years go by, this looks more, and more, like a vain hope.

Once again see what you can do someone?

The Rain Man Hallelujah.

David C.
Miedzianik Love you all xxxx

PS. I'm 45 years old with autism. I don't suffer from autism. As I suffer from other people. As us lot will inherit the Earth, not the meek, or The Greeks.
David Christopher Miedzianik <davidmiedzianik1@activemail.co.uk>
Rotherham, South Yorkshire England UK - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 06:59:55 (CST)

Hi my name is Lorna and I tok your tast and I was found to be in need of a NT test. As a kid I had a lot of autistic tenencies and I was looked at as the different kid in class. I was able to talk but I was in my own little world. I did have speech delay and language skills were way below my age level. I did moderate level of stimming behaviors when I got excited or finished a task. I like my own security places like my room and the bathroom. I did repetitive things as well. I would be in my room at night and make odd noises on my tape recorder. this was when I was 13-15. I tend to want to look at pictures in magizines or books rather than read them. As a kid I was verified as Mildly retarted but Im am at a level were i am not now. I got better and better through out my teenage years. My social skills were always low . My teacher said that I was very delayed in making socail judgments and that I was very limited in getting awareness of the imitiate environment.
hope this helps you, Lorna Wynn
Lorna Wynn <lorna1224@yahoo.com>
Wichita, KS Sedwick - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:21:56 (CST)

David,
One way to look at us of and on the spectrum type dudes and dudettes is that we are all artists, especially us older ones who have developed our skills. There are many, many arts. Perhaps you would consider expressing yourself in one or some of the many others?

It seems to me that you and I have much in common. Since I became aware both that most people do not accept differences and that there are others like me I've been on kind of a campaign to get NT's to accept differences. According to a recent post of yours it seems to me that we are both aware that it's the majority that needs to change, not us, that they really need the help and of a different type than any of us may have.

All told, when we find our balances, I ask all to count your blessings. My love to you all just as best as I can.
HT
NY USA - Sunday, November 04, 2001 at 06:03:49 (CST)

I don't think that me being from Minnesota will help you score a deal with a record company or a particular artist. :)
You have to have some local bands where you live. Why don't you ask them to put music to words about autism?
Emily Wallner
Saint Paul, MN USA - Friday, November 02, 2001 at 16:04:22 (CST)

Dear Emily, You're from MN, Minnesota. My idol Bob Dylan was
born in Minnesota. I've always wanted dylan to do a song about me just like he did one about Lenny Bruce. Maybe you
could help me out after all? Seeing you're from the state
where dylan was born. Keep trying Emily.

Love you all.

David C.
Miedzianik. Say..Med-Gen-Nick.

PS. Anyone seen my adverts in this weeks NME? Asking for
songs about either me, or autism in general.

PPS. It's The Rain Man Hallelujah.
David Christopher Miedzianik <davidmiedzianik1@activemail.co.uk>
Rotherham, South Yorkshire England UK - Friday, November 02, 2001 at 04:53:55 (CST)

I too agree that there isn't a cure for autism- one cannot cure a neurobiological disorder. It's built into our bodies. Diets like the GFCF ones do help people with food sensitivities that can sometimes cause autistic-like behavior but those people were never autistic in the first place.
I don't know anybody who records music regrettably.
I'm not necessarily super-proud to be autistic- I accept it but I don't think that it's a wonderful thing either or that people who aren't autistic are bad or anything like that. I don't understand society but, well, that's just the way it is. I can't change society.
Emily Wallner
MN USA - Thursday, November 01, 2001 at 17:11:20 (CST)

Dear Emily, Publishers aren't interested in people like me.
All they're interested in is, ripping people off and
making money. At present I'm trying without much luck, to
get more songs about either me, or autism in general.
Know of anyone Emily? As I'm fed-up. Even more so now with
the run up to Christmas. As I live all alone with my cat.
I was thinking of going back to the USA for Christmas, but
I need a new passport. As you have to have 6 months, left on
your passport to go to the USA.

Emily there is NO cure for autism. And because I can't go
around saying that some silly diet, or something, has helped me I get no invites to autism meetings or anything.

It's all a twist up thing with autism books, and meetings,
etc. The sad thing is, is that there's a lot of money to
be made by saying that diets, etc, help autism. These
people are just making loads of money out of people that
don't know which way to turn. And this is very, very wrong.
As once again there is NO cure, for this condition.

Recent years I've come to look at it from a different point,
of view, and I'm now proud of my autism. We're all living,
in a sick society that itself, needs to be cured. And it's
NOT us autistic people that are wrong, but the rest of society. The Greeks, or the meek, won't inhert the Earth, but us autistic people. As this condition is now something,
to be proud of.

Love you all.

David C.
Miedzianik xxx Say...Med-Gen-Nick.
David Christopher Miedzianik <davidmiedzianik1@activemail.co.uk>
Rotherham, South Yorkshire England UK - Thursday, November 01, 2001 at 05:10:17 (CST)

Great site! *thumbs up, then falls over* Good lord...i'm easy to frighten. Mweh heh heh. *dies laughing*
Serena190 <dilandau-sama@mailcity.com>
Babylon, CA Babylon. :P - Tuesday, October 30, 2001 at 22:25:15 (CST)

I know you're in there, I read it. Why don't you submit some of your writings to their publisher for review?
Emily Wallner
- Tuesday, October 30, 2001 at 22:02:08 (CST)

Dear Emily, I'm mentioned in one of Tony Attwood's books
under Motor Clumbsiness. Still no book deal for me though.
Sorry if the spellings wrong. No spellcheck online you see.

Love you all.

David C.
Miedzianik

PS. I'm mentioned on Tony Attwood's website too. Try putting
my surname miedzianik into a search engine like Google.
David Christopher Miedzianik <davidmiedzianik1@activemail.co.uk>
Rotherham, South Yorkshire England UK - Monday, October 29, 2001 at 04:28:50 (CST)

Help! One of my kids has recently been diagnosed with NT. I don't know how to deal with it. What should I do when he does weird stuff like bringing 'friends' home? Am I supposed to return them?
Tek Wallah <tekwallah@gmx.de>
- Sunday, October 28, 2001 at 17:04:00 (CST)

Hey. Did ya'all ever check out http://www.greenpeace.org ? It looks like "A Lesser Ape" (Yup, that's the name)Finally put his/her paw in his/her mouth. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Gods blessings, all. Mine often fall short. My love to you all just as best as I can.

HT
NY USA - Saturday, October 27, 2001 at 13:31:51 (CDT)

David,
Have you tried using the same publisher as Tony Attwood- Jessica Kingsley, I think it's called? They might be more receptive to a book of poetry on autism.

Emily Wallner
- Thursday, October 25, 2001 at 22:29:58 (CDT)

Well it's The Rain Man Hallelujah. And what a bore it is too
being back home once again from Colorado. I'm now sitting in
a cyber-cafe in Rotherham, South Yorkshire hoping no doubt
in vain that someone will do more songs about me, or autism
in general. As I'm The Real Slim Shady I'm sick of him.
Remember the 2 postcards I sent you in Denver? No reply up
to now from him.

What really hurts me about autism is the lack of help for
anyone in my situation. No-one will publish my poems, etc,
etc, etc. I have to use The Net because publishers are so
awful, and so on, and so on. I'm proud of my autism. And I
no longer look on it as a disability. In fact I think the
autistic people will inherit the Earth, and not the meek or
The Greeks or whatever.

Well once again sing my praises I'm The Real Slim Shady,
and It's The Rain Man Hallelujah. Anyone seen my advert in
this weeks NME, under Artists Wanted? Saying It's The Rain Man Hallelujah etc?

Once again see what you can do someone. I have to post this
message now. As my time is nearly up in the cyber-cafe.

Love you all.

David C.
Miedzianik xxx

PS. My stuff is on Internet search on miedzianik Lycos,
Google, Yahoo, etc.

PPS. I'm 45 with autism. I don't suffer from autism. As I
suffer from other people. Say..Med-Gen-Nick.

David Christopher Miedzianik <davidmiedzianik1@activemail.co.uk>
Rotherham, Yorkshire England. UK. - Wednesday, October 24, 2001 at 05:56:36 (CDT)

love the website...my dad's has AS, my son has downs+ autisim, and i'm afraid i'm a halfbreed. two quotes:

(this one describes how i feel about the nt community)

The Question
Do you have the place inside you,
that exists independent and apart
from the way things are,
the place where you can respond
to the way things are,
in a way that is not dictated
by the way things are,
or are you just hard-wired to the machine?
by Dennis McBride, 2000

(this one is by my hero, Emma Goldman)
The most unpardonable sin in society is independence of thought.
camille <camille_juntunen@yahoo.com>
corvallis, or usa - Friday, October 05, 2001 at 22:28:17 (CDT)

I'm doing that reseach my whole life starting in Russia and continue in USA. I got a good result how to understand and approach NTs. I have been working with mentally disable kids/adults for a few years. I love them very much and thank to them I feel much easier now with NTs, because in dealing with them I always start with some disability which I can detect: like obsession with money or power hunger or extreme selfishness. When I apply that approach to NTs I feel as I'm at work with my clients. I enjoy my work and with that new approach to NTs I started to enjoy life overall and have less problems with NTs. Thanks
Dina <vekdi@aol.com>
NYC, NY USA - Thursday, October 04, 2001 at 14:09:10 (CDT)

OK OK (Scaley roar).......
HT
USA - Friday, September 28, 2001 at 13:41:25 (CDT)

eh hem.
To further your research I would like to add
mi theory on dinosaours....
eh hem,

Kewl site!!!!

Anne_Elk <neversilly@hotmail.com>
Oz - Friday, September 21, 2001 at 09:30:32 (CDT)

Today I've bought another Bob Dylan album to take back to
England. As I'm going back soon. It's always been my
ambition to get Bob Dylan, to do a song about either me, or
autism in general. If anyone wants to do such a song
remember my poetry, info, and photos, are on Internet search
on miedzianik Lycos, Google, Yahoo, etc. I know that
songwriters look at poetry for ideas for songs. So once
again, how about someone looking at mine, with this in mind?
I get a bit bitter, and twisted, about this as it costs me
loads writing off, and also sticking adverts, in the music
press over this. Even though I have 3 downloads, of songs
about myself, on The Net. One of which is done, by a heavy
metal band, called Solitary. Oddly enough their, track about
me, is called Twisted. See what you can do someone?

Love you all.

David C.
Miedzianik xxxx

PS. I don't think I'll be sticking, as many messages on this
once I'm back to England. As my comupter is broken. And it
costs me loads to use the cyber-cafes back there. I can still
get folks e-mails. As I've got e-mail, on my digital TV back
in South Yorkshire. (That's my activemail account).

David Christopher Miedzianik <davidmiedzianik1@activemail.co.uk>
Denver, Colorado USA - Thursday, September 20, 2001 at 12:33:54 (CDT)

What a great web site....I totally loved it. My husband has AS, but doesn't even know it exists. I know about AS through my work with autistic people believe it or not. If he ever figures it out I am definitely going to show him this site...he will love it! He already believes he's normal and I am totally weird. He may be right!!!
Donna M. <donnam_ot@yahoo.com>
St. Louis, Mo USA - Monday, September 17, 2001 at 22:08:25 (CDT)

I've recommended this website to a few friends (all, like myself, alas, circa 90% NT) who will enjoy it as much as I do. Very heartening to see here that many of those commonly considered "afflicted" in this way have hope and insight.

Let me suggest (hypothetically of course) that this state (whatever its nom du j